Advice re CSS & Menu Builders please

[Mike Feury]

Hi All,

My main focus is content & business rather than web design or development, so I intend to use good tools where possible to save time building my site - eg DreamWeaver.

2 tools I intend to purchase this week are builders for Menus and for CSS. I'd appreciate any advice or experience you folks can share about these. My research so far has led me to:

CSS
Style Master is my #1 choice, but nobody seems to be familiar with it.
TopStyle Pro is my #2, and seems to be everyone else's only choice. It does have the advantage of integration with DreamWeaver.

Menu
I really like the look of AllWebMenus, but I'm told the links are generated completely within the script and so would be inaccessible to search engines and people with disabilities, eg braille browsers.
MenuMagic might be the best alternative - again, this product integrates with DreamWeaver.

Within reason, price is not an issue - getting the best tool for months/years of work is far more important.

My main requirements for the CSS Builder are:

• Accuracy, + ability to specify which browsers & standards I want to support
• Preview facility so I can mess around with alternatives quickly
• Help re available attributes & values would be very nice, but not crucial
• CSS management - I envisage using 2+ sheets on many pages

For the Menu builder:

• Compatible with Search Engines, disabilities, W3C standards
• Easy preview ability
• Nested sub-levels, 3-4 levels deep
• Use text links - images not required
• Usable with handheld, mobile and wireless devices
• Capable of 2+ separate menus on a page - ie 'main' menus

Both tools need to behave well with DreamWeaver templates, library items and layers.

Thanks

[Till]

TopStyle is just great. I've been using it for almost a year now and it saves me a lot of time, and acts as a small reference as well. <cheapplug>Way to go Bradsoft</cheapplug>

As for the DHTML menues. I am not a big friend of them. Too many people have to get used to the navigation through those menues and don't understand how they work. On the other hand, they save you a lot of space. I'd still withstand from using them.

On the few sites, I had to use them, I coded them by hand. Which gives you the ability to make them do whatever you want them to.

Regarding the braille browsers. If you find any useful information on the web, please post it here. I am very interested in that one.

My main requirements for the CSS Builder are:
[...]
For the Menu builder:
[...]

And that is one wish-huge list. Christmas just went by, and is still over 6 months ahead of us, remember that.

[Mike Feury]

Hi Till,

Guess you misread "Hi All"?
Speaking of EuroCents, now that the Irish pound is no longer legal tender, the folks in Ireland can no longer spend a penny. They will have to euronate instead

Originally posted by Till
TopStyle is just great. I've been using it for almost a year now and it saves me a lot of time, and acts as a small reference as well. <cheapplug>Way to go Bradsoft</cheapplug>

I played with TopStyle Lite a little when I was using HomeSite last year and it looked good indeed. Guess I'll grab the trial of the other one and then decide - doesn't seem to be any other good alternatives.

As for the DHTML menues. I am not a big friend of them. Too many people have to get used to the navigation through those menues and don't understand how they work.

Oh dear Usability was a big reason I wanted to use them - ie provide instant access to anywhere on a big site.
Are you sure though? After all, Windows uses that style of menus [drop-down & fly-out], so I would have thought it would be familiar to most.

Coding by hand really isn't an option for me - I usually only learn the minimum technology required to support the larger objectives, and then learn as I go along. Maybe in a year's time

Sure, I'll post any good info re braille browsers.

Thanks for your response

[Till]

Regarding the usability, I'd give you the advice to read around on http://www.useit.com.
Maybe Jacob raves about DHTML menus on there. He has published so many articles on so many different subjects - some I found more useful, some not.

_till

[Mike Feury]

Hi Till,

I'd been to Jakob's site a while back - on the list to 'see again'.

I spent some time there after your suggestion, and it was time well spent - much food for thought. What he says sits well with my own ideas, but he certainly gave me some new bones to chew on

Thanks for the reminder.

[Allen]

Just remember, Jacob is not always right. Usability testing of your specific web site is the best way to determine if it is ready to go or if it needs changes.

You can post your web site in our "Show Off Your Site" forum and HTMLCenter users will give you feedback.

Good luck!

Allen

[Till]

Originally posted by Mike Feury
Guess you misread "Hi All"?

No. My second skizzo personality's name is All as well.

But on a serious note, this is HTMLCenter and we all try to help and I am pretty sure that Allen is glad about others replying to some of the posts.

Originally posted by Allen
Just remember, Jacob is not always right.

On a side note. I am not a fan of Jakob Nielson. He is very radical and he thinks of himself too much as a guru. Well some people do. Well anyway, a - in my opinion - more open minded and liberal (oh, oh) approach to web usability is "Don't make me think" by Steve Krugg.

He's not too much about "defacing" other websites and telling the readership what's cool and what is not. He writes a lot about the actual process of web usability testing (from which you can actually learn), goes more into detail of why (explainage rocks )some things are do's and some things are don't's. I really, really adore his book.

_till

[Mike Feury]

Hi Till,

Thought you should know that something faintly wonderful and mildly disturbing is emerging here. To wit, you are becoming my guru! Although in my case, that should read "to half-wit".

I went off to Amazon and had a look at Krugg's book - never heard of him before. Liked it immediately when I went through the sample pages there - and was completely convinced when I read Dan Gookin's review. Dan is my favorite computer author so far.

"Jacob is not always right" Very true - but he's not wrong either We're talking usability here after all, and as in most things context is everything. Reminds me of the old question "Are Rolls Royce cars better quality than Ford?"

The value of people like Jakob or ***-hard hand-coders or staunch vegetarians is that they keep you aware of the trade-offs you are making, which is always useful even if not 'right'.

Anyway, thanks for the tip - I ordered Krugg's book for under $13.50 total

Mike.